C stekker Renix

hi

I've used www.systranet.com/ to translate some of the replies here.

In the end, given the info from Mac (who worked in product quality at volvo's import centre in the UK), the Renix situation is quite simple.

In summary (for the B14 4E)

402 runs map suitable for 98 octane
Earthing pin 7 = map suitable for 95 octane

412 runs maps suitable for 98 octane
earthing pin 7 = map suitable for 95 octane

earthing pins 6 and 7 gives a 2 deg more retarded map for catalyser models running 95 octane.


In the end, it doesnt make sense that the 402 with no plug (pin 7) earthed should run ok on 95 octane given this maps more advanced nature especially if the engine was tuned correctly. Map should be too advanced for 95 octane.

Unless...the UK and Dutch 402 Renix were different.

OR..your car running 95 octane on a 402 was running rich so as creating conditions which avoid the knock which would occur if the engine was tuned correctly.

If the Renix adds a small adjustment map over the top of the original to map the retarded maps or if the Renix contains more than one map is really part of this discussion

(the 850 etc has one ignition map and when it hears knock it adds a small adjustment map over the top - result, it then has a more retarded map).

[mod] Moved some posts involving bitching about each other's use of the english language to the Thread Without Topic [/mod]

shimon340;117393 schreef : Unless...the UK and Dutch 402 Renix were different.

why would volvo make a seperate 402 map for uk and holland?; that's a waste of money..

shimon340;117393 schreef : OR..your car running 95 octane on a 402 was running rich so as creating conditions which avoid the knock which would occur if the engine was tuned correctly.

that just isn't true; i am one of the guys here that is extremely caring about engines and their tuning.. i've had mine tuned very correctly by myself after fully refurbishing the carb and giving it a major service. i managed a fuel consumption of 1:15km when it was an automatic and after that i got allmost to 1:18 with the manual 5 speed! so with that low fuel consumption; no way it's running rich.

shimon340;117393 schreef : If the Renix adds a small adjustment map over the top of the original to map the retarded maps or if the Renix contains more than one map is really part of this discussion

i've said something about that here in this topic, to investigate this. but appearantly one of the mod's here deleted that post because i can't find it anymore..

shimon340;117393 schreef : (the 850 etc has one ignition map and when it hears knock it adds a small adjustment map over the top - result, it then has a more retarded map).

knock-sensor is usually connected to c-8; it goes like that on renault 5 gt turbo


so in my opinion it is quite simple;

with c-6 and c-7 you can retard the ignition curve over it's full reach
with the use of a knock sensor on c-8 the ignition curve gets advanced if the sensor detects detonation/knock.

in short; 1 map for every renix unit with the possibillity to retard or advance a fixed value across the entire ignition cuve with the c-plug.

now all we need is someone who can prove me wrong; or prove me right:)

hello

My reference to running rich wasnt a critism of your car etc. It is just that running rich can prevent pinking on lower octane fuel. No offence meant

Given the info from Mac the 402 usually runs a more advanced map suitable for 98 octane. Unamended, is runs the more advanced map so its doesnt make sense that you could run a 340 on 95 octane with this map and not have pinking. With pin 7 earthed you have a map for 95 octane.

Some information must be missing as to how your car could do that......

Quote "with the use of a knock sensor on c-8 the ignition curve gets advanced if the sensor detects detonation/knock."

>>It would be retarding of the map when knock was detected.

in short; 1 map for every renix unit with the possibility to retard or advance a fixed value across the entire ignition cuve with the c-plug.

>> C plug alone only lets on retard the map but I agree it could be addition of an amendment map over the top of the original one rather than a complete map.

The 850 indeed has one map but then adds an amendment map onto the original as it hears knock (retards map so it is adding a negative value to the map to overall reduce the values. 400 series is the same system via its Renix too and pin .

regards

shimon340;117439 schreef : My reference to running rich wasnt a critism of your car etc. It is just that running rich can prevent pinking on lower octane fuel. No offence meant

no worries mate, i wasn't replying to a offence; that's just my lack of good english:D

yes i would say it should retard if knock is detected; renault 5 gtt experts say the opposite and that it advances if it detects knock.

strange how a simple subject can turn out a bit braincracking:)

Wait a minute... A knock is a spontaneous combustion before it was meant, right? Before the piston reaches its highest point.
So..., why would you ever want to retard more when it knocks? You then just make it fire too early on purpose.

...Or am I thinking wrong way down?

I am missing one bit in this discussion:

the B14.4 cars sold in NL market with 402 Renix and no wires connected to the C-plug had a compression ratio of 9.25 to 1.

these required RON 96 , not RON98

Of course, this curve also works beautifully for 98..
most users do not know any of this and use the car with moderate sucess on 95.
it runs much better on 98, though


The C-plug has 2 earthing options:
wire 6, the first one of the C-plug
wire 7, the middle one

earthing each wire brings 3 degrees retardation at a time.
Wire 6 is earthed on Manual and CVT cars with catalyc converter and high compression (9.25 as stated above)
Wire 7 is earthed as above, only for the CVT cars.

So the catalyc converter is the main reason why the C-connector exist.
Alternative use of the connector can be made to accomodate a high compression engine for lower graded fuel.
However, this comes at a big cost in terms of horsepower and efficiency of the engine.

To run lower graded fuel, it is much better to take a lower-compression version of the engine.

B14.4S was only available in high compression versions; 9.25 to 1.
B14.4E: two versions; one as B14.4S, another (specifically designed for RON95) 8.90 to 1.
B14.4O: specifically designed to run on refined wee with dishwater (RON91). compression: a dismal 8.2 to 1. (but it does turn out 67 Hp on that garbage fuel)

antiekeradio;117449 schreef : B14.4S was only available in high compression versions; 9.25 to 1.

I have a B14.4S engine, from a 1986 car, in a 1989 car with a catalyc converter and CVT, does this mean that I should use RON 98, the engine runs on RON 95, but not as well as I would like, and the fuel consumption is high.

antiekeradio;117449 schreef : B14.4E: two versions; one as B14.4S, another (specifically designed for RON95) 8.90 to 1.

Can you be more specific?

unfortunately not, as I have no information on further identification between the two compression ratios by looking at numbers on the engine.

the RON96 requirement was dropped to RON95 in 1987, I am 95% convinced this has to do with the transition from 402 to 412 Renix. But not yet 100% so this is open for discussion, too.